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Monday, November 20, 2006


Duncan Cragg

Wow! This is stunning! I don't know what to say. I'm delighted you've risen to the challenge!!

But will you last the course? Can you finish nine rounds? Can you mix two metaphors in one paragraph like I can?

The money's on, the punter's are watching...

Should be fun, anyway! =0)

Duncan Cragg

I'm shortly posting up number three in the series.

Should I hold off a bit if you're going to respond to part two??

I don't want to hold you to anything you don't want to do, but I also don't want to overrun you if you're busy.

Please use the work email I just attached.

Mark Baker

I love the title of the site/blog too; "add simplicity". If you read the REST dissertation (maybe you have, dunno) you'll see that the uniform interface is a constraint which "adds (oodles of) simplicity". What SOA constraint adds simplicity? None that I'm aware of ... though, then again, SOA isn't nearly as well defined as REST; we don't even know its constraints.

It would be interesting if one of your dialogues were to look at REST vs. SOA/SOAP from this POV.

Dan Pritchett

SOA is probably one of the most ill-defined and over used terms I know. My participation in the dialogue is intended more to point out weakness in the REST arguments than to argue in favor of SOA/SOAP.

I'll be continuing this thread with Duncan's lead. It's a dialogue still evolving.

Vadim Geshel

Mark: It's an interesting comment that REST is better-defined. I don't claim to be an expert so correct me if I'm wrong, but REST seems to me to so much to add simplicity but to punt on complexity. Sure, you can make things simple by pushing data representation up the stack and pretending that everything can fit in two verbs, caching is all-or-nothing, fixed addressing schemes scale, etc. Most of Duncan's points are good and REST approaches sound, but they are not addressing the really interesting problems of an eBay-scale API. I'm hoping Duncan and Dan will get to those in the upcoming episodes.

Vadim Geshel

Sorry, typo

REST seems to me to so much to add simplicity
/REST seems to me NOT so much to add simplicity

Mark Baker

It's not pretending, Vadim. And it's not two verbs either 8-) It's any verb which is meaningful to all operations. GET/PUT/POST/DELETE are the pre-defined, relatively commonly used ones.

It doesn't push complexity up the stack; the data integration problem is *identical* for both REST and SOA, showing that nothing is punted. But SOA has an interface integration issue, while REST does not. That's why it's simpler.

Mark Baker

Doh, I meant "any verb meaningful to all resources".


"From a scaling perspective, XML is XML."

XML is XML is XML... unless it's JSON, YAML, SOX, SLiP, etc...


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